Keskustelua asehistoriasta ja militariasta

Rokka wrote:Olivatko nuo operaatiot valvontakomission vaatimuksia, tuskimpa nuo täysin itsenäisiä operaatioita olivat, eivätkä niinkään liittyneet Saksalaisten häätämiseen lapista

Välirauhasopimus toiselta puolen Sosialististen Neuvostotasavaltain Liiton ja Ison-Britannian ja Pohjois-Irlannin Yhdistyneen Kuningaskunnan sekä toiselta puolen Suomen välillä.
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17§. Suomalaiset kauppa-alukset, lukuunottamatta niitä, jotka jo ovat Liittoutuneiden valvonnassa, on asetettava Liittoutuneiden (Neuvostoliiton) Ylimmän Sotilasjohdon valvontaan käytettäväksi Liittoutuneiden yleisten etujen mukaisesti.

C. Liite 3 artiklaan
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2. Siihen saakka, kunnes sota Saksaa vastaan on lopetettu, on Liittoutuneiden sota- ja kauppalaivoilla oikeus käyttää Suomen aluevesiä, satamia, laitureita ja ankkuripaikkoja. Suomen hallitus antaa tarpeellista apua materiaaliteknillisessä huollossa.

G. Liite 8 artiklaan
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3. Suomen hallitus sitoutuu turvaamaan Neuvostoliitolle Porkkalan niemimaan laivastotukikohtaan Neuvostoliitosta lähetettäviä henkilö- ja tavarakuljetuksia varten välttämättömät kulkuyhteydet rautateitse, vesiteitse, maanteitse ja ilmateitse.

Laippakanta wrote:Siis oliko Louhella ja Ruotsinsalmella venäläiset saattajat?

Rokka wrote:Tuolla dokumentit osiossa oli heräteelty keskustelua tuon National Geographic dokumentista Suomenlahdelta löytyneiden U676 ja U745, jotka olivat uponneet tammi ja helmikuussa 1945 saman vuoden alussa laskettuun "Vantaa 3" miinakenttään. Samoin ilmeisesti samalla alueella upposi tammikuussa U679.

Laippakanta wrote:Tämäpä mielenkiintoista, jos nyt ymmärsin oikein...

"At 11.50 hours on 12 Jan, 1945, an explosion occured under the Louhi that was returning with the Finnish minelayer Ruotsinsalmi from a minelaying operation south of Russarö (160 mines were laid) under escort of two Soviet MO-class submarine hunters. The ship sank within two minutes and the survivors were picked up by the escorts shortly thereafter. A long time it was believed that the vessel probably hit a mine from a deep laid Soviet barrage in the area because no German claim could be found. But years later the wreck was located in 40 metres depth and shows signs of a torpedo explosion. U-370 had reported an unsuccessful attack with two Gnats on a group of warships in the area on that day, so it is very likely that one of the Gnats had in fact hit the minelayer.

This was the last U-boat success in the Baltic Sea."

Siis oliko Louhella ja Ruotsinsalmella venäläiset saattajat?

After the Armistice Finland had to lay some mine barrages on Ahvenanmaa area and off Hanko. These operations were ordered by Russians and they started in October. Eight barrages were laid. These barrages included the following:

...12.1.1945
South from Hanko peninsula 160 mines in two lines. The codename was Vantaa 1, code Vantaa 3 is also used. This barrage was laid by Ruotsinsalmi and Louhi together. Close cover was given by VMV 2, VMV 5 and VMV 6 and outer screen further in south by Soviet MO-boats. The depth setting was 2.5 m. The eastern line had 100 mines of type S/43, the western had 50 mines type S/38, one type S/38 II and 9 mines of type S/43. Mine distance 70 m, distance between lines 50-250 m. On return trip from this operation minelayer Louhi was sunk...

...12 January 1945 minelayers Ruotsinsalmi and Louhi had laid barrage Vantaa 3 with 160 mines south from Russarö. On the return trip Ruotsinsalmi and Louhi sailed in line with 500 m distance. At 12.50 an explosion happened on the starboard side of Louhi approximately on the level of the aft mast. Louhi sank stern first in two minutes. The ship had been hit by an acoustic torpedo shot by German U 370 in grid square 0253. The explosion has been described smooth indicating a influence triggered weapon and not one that exploded by contact. Previously it has been believed that Louhi hit a mine probably laid by U 481 11 November 1944 [Wih94]. It is also claimed that the Soviet officer in charge ordered Louhi to sail over a known Soviet barrage that was supposed to be so deep that crossing was possible [Lap97]. The escorting two Soviet MO-boats saved most of the crew, but eleven Finnish sailors were lost. 33 Finnish sailors and the Soviet liaison officer were saved. The wreck lays upright at 33 metres depth. The position is given as 59o41'N, 23o07'E, about 7.5 miles in direction 140o from Russarö light. The investigations of the wreck showed that the aft deck is missing, the port side of the aft hull is missing and stern gun and stern wheelhouse have flown away.