Arcane ja THV-luodit?

[Bushmaster]

Onko kenelläkään mitään tietoa noista? Miksei noin yksinkertaisia ammuksia ole otettu laajemmalti käyttöön, vai ovatko sittenkin mainettaan huonompia? Voisi esim. kuvitella, että yli HRC 60:n karkaistu teräs-arcane - tai kenties jopa volframikarbidinen - kuparipinnoitettuna olisi ballistisesti ylivertainen mutta silti hyvin edullinen kaikkiin muihin pansariluoteihin verrattuna?

[J]

Arcane luoti nemenä taitaa olla ihan kekkosen keksintöä. Lävistävyys on parempi perinteisellä panssariluodilla jos on keerna sisällä. TUo on ihan vaan valmistamisen helppouden takia tuollanen.
Tuotakaan ei kekkonen ite testannu.

Reukussa tuota joskus testattiin, paperivaippa toimi jotenkuten muttei kiväärissä ikinään. Kiväärin vauhdilla paperivaippa kulus puhki ja kovaks karkastu kuulaa syö piipun.

[Bushmaster]

Onhan penetraattorin ympärille suhteellisen helppoa prässätä pehmytmetallinen vaippa taikka muodostaa sellainen pinnoite elektrolyyttisesti. Jos ydin on esimerkiksi 8.9mm, voidaan sen päälle muodostaa noin 0.12mm paksuinen kerros elektrolyyttistä kuparia, jonka pitäisi riittää justiinsa rihloille.

THV-luodeista ja rajatusti myös arcaneista näyttää olevan juttua ulkomaisilla boardeilla.

[J]

Elektrolyyttipinnoitus ei kestä kiväärin lähtönopeutta ei ees .357maxin nopeutta. Helpoiten pääsee .30 reikäsissä kun ostaa .30 -> .222 sabotteja ja laittaa keernan sinne. Menee vaan aikaa kun ehtii oikean mitan että vakautuu.

[Bushmaster]

Vaipan voi myös prässätä muotissa keernan ympärille. Kiinalaiset myyvät halvalla volframikarbidisia kaivosteollisuuden kärkiä, jotka ovat identtisiä AP-ammusten ydinten kanssa.

Tietysti luvanvaraisuus rajoittaa näiden kanssa touhuamista.

[J]

Laitas kuva miten oot prässänny? Keneltä ostit kupit vai teitkö ite? Miten oli rockit keernassa?

[Bushmaster]

En ole prässännyt enkä valmistanut mitään, koska minulla ei toistaiseksi ole siihen vaadittavia asianmukaisia lupia. Tutkin näitä mielenkiinnosta, jos tulevaisuudessa tulee hommattua keräilylupia näille ammustyypeille.

[Hammer]

Arcane
The Arcane cartridges derive their name from the company name "Laboratoire Arcane" which was
a one-man operation in France run by Fabrice Bodet. Fabrice Bodet was something similar to a
Joe Zambone (Magsafe - U.S.) type of loader, in that he was not exactly a chemist, a machinist, or
a technician, but he was an entrepreneur with a vision. He was not afraid to experiment with
mixtures of powders to obtain high velocities, which often resulted in higher than normal
pressures. Around 1978 Mr. Bodet began trying in earnest to machine various projectiles from
hardened beryllium-copper for a few different calibers, namely 9x19mm, .38spl / .357mag,
.44mag and .45acp. These pointed monolithic copper projectiles were the first true AP pistol
projectiles to hit the scene on the commercial market since KTW and the M/39B, which were still
in production at the time. The goal with Arcane was to create a projectile with a high penetration
value, but which also created a large wound channel which KTW and M/39B did not achieve.
The desired wound channel was to be achieved through the shape of the bullet which caused
rupturing and cavitations behind the projectile. SFM would later expand on this notion to greater
success with their THV cartridges. The Arcane cartridges were marketed to law enforcement,
government agencies, and the military in France and the U.S., and Mr. Bodet acquired a U.S.
patent for this bullet design as #4819563 to this end (It was pending from June 1978 until final
approval in April, 1989). The first major publicity for Arcane came in the January 1980 issue of
the Belgian guns magazine “AMI”. The French Magazine “Action Digest” would run a long
2-part article on Arcane titled “Arcane contre KTW” in their May & June 1981 issues, and
eventually Americans would be exposed to Arcane’s existence with an article in the
November/December 1981 issue of American Handgunner. These articles all ran tests on Arcane
and compared its performance to KTW, and all of them universally agreed that while penetration
was similar in value, the wound channel caused by the Arcane far exceeded the KTW’s.
Ultimately there were no serious takers, however he did enjoy some limited notoriety and sales for
testing purposes. By the late 1980’s Laboratoire Arcane was out of business, a victim of
competition from THV, and anti pistol-caliber AP legislation in the U.S. and France. Arcane
cartridges came in black boxes of 50 with white printed labels reading simply “Arcane” on the top
of the box, and caliber info written on the end cap. The brass used was all commercial from the
likes of Hirtenberger, Geco, and Winchester. The cartridges are considered by most to be
somewhat dangerously +P+ at times, due to the fact that various cartridges had differing loads of
sometimes mixed propellants throughout the lifetime of experimentation of Arcane cartridges.
The cartridges can be found rarely on the collector market in the U.S. and are even harder to come
by in France due to their strict laws. Sometime in the mid to late 1980’s, the South African firm
PMP stole the Arcane idea & design and made very limited numbers of similar pointed monolithic
copper projectiles which were loaded on commercial Winchester brass for testing and possible
police use. This version never became commercially available.

THV
T.H.V. stands for "Tres Haute Vittesse" or "Very high velocity". The THV cartridges originated
in France in 1982 from inventor André Antoine and were an ever-evolving project by French
munitions company SFM. The origin of the THV actually dates back to the ALIA cartridge
which had come out a couple years prior to the THV, and was designed by the same inventors.
The only shortcomings of the very high-penetration capable ALIA was that it did not produce a
major wound channel in the way that a hollow-point, or even the Arcane bullet was capable of.
Their solution was the THV design with its "negative parabolic" ogive which was eventually
commercialized and sold through SFM. The idea was to create a projectile which could be
chambered in all of the most common pistol calibers (and two rifle calibers) which would have
long-range, high-velocity, high-accuracy, high-penetration, and also cause serious wound
channels. Accuracy, range, and velocity are all somewhat given objectives of munitions
producers, but the real trick with THV was finding the proper mix of high penetration with decent
wounding ability. This was accomplished with a unique bullet ogive which looks almost
deflated, having a wide base, and a thin spire like tip which flows up like a circular, single-post
circus tent. The bullets were all brass which provided for Kevlar (and certain metal) penetrating
abilities, while the shape caused a decent wound channel whether it initially penetrated anything
solid or not. The shape also caused a severe slow-down as it cavitated and ruptured tissue after
initial penetration which helped to prevent severe over-penetration. Velocities prior to impact
were mind-boggling (9mm @ 2600fps in a 4" barrel!) for their time as far as pistol projectiles
went, and this was a function of the bullet design as well, which was a hollow design leaving the
bullet with a relatively low grain-weight, but still with the ability to handle hot charges since the
projectiles were solid brass. The THV story is just as complex as the KTW story (if not more
complex) in terms of exact bits of trivia, and is a very international story with other producers in
such countries such as South Africa, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Italy and Finland attempting copies of this
bullet design. Throughout the 1980's there were various testing facilities who all tried out the
THV, but the French were the primary consumer, as after all, the THV was first produced by the
state-run company SFM specifically for its own police, and only considered for export as an
afterthought. Although it achieved success in most all of its target parameters, the project
ultimately ceased in all the various countries and agencies that were using it due mostly to cost of
production, and overall lack of necessity. In the late 1980's the death nail for many AP pistol
cartridges, THV included, was the fact that commercial importation into the U.S. would be greatly
complicated by the anti pistol-caliber armor piercing law. The 1986 ban in the U.S. actually
mentions THV by name in the list of ATF-banned projectiles. Despite this, there are many
specimens which have found their way into the hands of collectors all over the world, and as far as
international collectors go, is probably the most relatively widely held "pistol AP" cartridge there
is.. Projects such as MONAD, BAT, and Sentry were all born out of ideas which peeled off from
the THV concept somewhat. Several different variations of original and copycat THV bullets can
be found today, and there were many bullets sold strictly for reloading back in the 80's. Complete
cartridges will usually have the "SFM THV" headstamp, but not always, as many were reloaded,
and since some very early cartridges did not have the "THV" on the headstamp, just the "SFM",
else they might be from South Africa. The most commonly encountered calibers collector-wise
are .38spl, .357mag, and 9mm. Also produced were .32ACP, .380 auto, 7.62x25mm, .30 Mauser,
.45ACP, 5.45x56mm, and 7.62x51mm. The 7.62x25 was strictly from South African producer
Ramrod, while the .30 Mauser was an Italian load and was not originally from SFM.

[caporal]

Selittäkääs tyhmälle mikä on KEERNA ?

[J]

Selittäkääs tyhmälle mikä on KEERNA ?

Kovametalli ytimestä käytetty nimi.

[caporal]

Jos luodin sisus on kovametallia niin onks tämä niinku panssariluoti ? Vai olenko ymmärtänyt väärin ? Siis mihin tarkoitukseen nämä ?

[J]

Jos luodin sisus on kovametallia niin onks tämä niinku panssariluoti ? Vai olenko ymmärtänyt väärin ? Siis mihin tarkoitukseen nämä ?

Joo siihen tarkotukseen, täällä päin yritettiin ratakiskosta noilla läpi päästä

[caporal]

Selvä ,ymmärretty VR:n miesten kiskojen lävistyspatruuna.

[Hammer]

Tuossapa muutama esimerkki.

[J]

Alakuvassa olevia .357:ja miulla on hopean värisinä parikymmentä jälellä.